{Spoilers} Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Thread for Winners! {Spoilers}

Discussion in 'Nintendo' started by simplyTravis, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. simplyTravis

    simplyTravis "A nice guy, but looks like a f'n Jedi!"

    It's that time again! A new Xenoblade came out and it was jam-packed with twists, turns, and a boatload of tropes! Consider this thread a safe-space to discuss spoilers with your other winner brethren!

  2. simplyTravis

    simplyTravis "A nice guy, but looks like a f'n Jedi!"

    So, I'm pretty happy with this game but there are definitely some issues here and there. Overall if I were to give this game a score it would definitely be a 9 out of 10. Here are my pros and cons before I get into other things:

    • Beautiful graphics
    • Great character designs (not because they were great heaving character designs though)
    • Really fun fighting system with lots of variety capable
    • A feel that I'm controlling or leading a team rather than just kind of going with the flow
    • The last half of the game was epic.
    • It felt like I was in the middle of a good anime movie at times
    • I'm still finding things to do and feel like doing said things
    • Rare blades are neat as are their stories
    • The ending was pretty heartwarming and fulfilling unlike other Xenoblade endings have been
    • The game was good at playing with emotions at times
    • It can be incredibly tropey, cheesy, or whatever you want to call it (just don't call it too anime...people will get out pitchforks)
    • It can be a bit cumbersome to update characters, blades affinity charts, etc... You know what I'm talking about.
    • Worlds do some a bit constricting at times due to the complexity of trails
    • Lacks the feeling of adventure that XCX had
    • I can't explore Elysium after beating the game!
    • Indol is no longer accessible.wtf..
    • Tying Poppi to Tiger Tiger was a terrible idea. Thank goodness for other tank choices!
    • The quests can be just a tad long at times.
    Overall I feel like this game is not quite as good as earth-shattering (titan-shattering?) as XC1 or XCX was but it shouldn't have to be. I enjoyed XC2 very much and rarely got bored playing it. In fact, I probably played for longer periods of time than the other two games. The story would get really good at times and I just had to see what was next. The characters felt very much alive and were fleshed out pretty well even if they were somewhat reserved at the beginning.

    The ending was spectacular. I was glad to see a happy ending for Rex Rex instead of that sort of XC1 ending where it's bittersweet. And honestly, it should have ended this way in XC2 because it was a more hopeful game. I'll blabber on more later because I still have quite a way to play.
    • Like Like x 2
    • R.A.P. R.A.P. x 1
  3. Koenig

    Koenig The Architect

    To be fair, all the Xenoblade Games have had a bad case of "middle-management-mother-fuckery"; so its not too fair to pin the blame entirely on X2. Somehow though, it feels much more noticeable this time around.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. simplyTravis

    simplyTravis "A nice guy, but looks like a f'n Jedi!"

    Are...are you a winner yet?!??
  5. Koenig

    Koenig The Architect

    No, not yet.
  6. Karkashan

    Karkashan Well-Known Member

    The ship wars seem particularly intense in the fandom this go around.

    Makes me wonder how bad it was with Shulk/Fiora VS Shulk/Melia.

    • Like Like x 1
  7. simplyTravis

    simplyTravis "A nice guy, but looks like a f'n Jedi!"

    • R.A.P. R.A.P. x 1
  8. Karkashan

    Karkashan Well-Known Member


    So, Alvis seems like he was the third Aegis, based on this game and XC1. And it also seems that the Titans, Blades, and all that was something Klaus had already created before using the Conduit to create a new universe instead. This would help explain how the Bionis and Mechonis were formed in XC1 - they were also formed from a more limited version of the Cloud Sea technology in that other world, but things were a bit more screwy with Galea and PartialKlaus becoming (what seems to be) partial/joint Drivers of Alvis.

    I wonder if Zanza's "yearning for friendship" was a result of him being less than half of the original Klaus.

    I think I would've preferred Mythra and Pyra staying fused but retaining the form of Pnuema and undergoing a personality blending instead.

    (I apologize if I get a name wrong, I'm going only off memory)

    I've spent more time checking out the Japanese VA on some cutscenes, and I honest to grima feel it's terrible. Especially Nia but the dislike for the acting of the seiyuu in this game can be spread around to the rest of the cast. I don't know if this is actually due to the acting or if I'm slowly losing my tolerance for listening to acting in a language I don't understand.
    • R.A.P. R.A.P. x 2
  9. Koenig

    Koenig The Architect

    I beat the game earlier today. For me my enjoyment took a 180 for the better once I started climbing the world Tree. The whole thing with the beanstalk, Klaus, and the lore and the connections to Xenoblade(1) were infinitely more interesting to me than the hours of tropes and cliches that preceded it. I dunno, maybe it what just because they were taking the time to actually explain things rather than just embracing them outright, but I enjoyed the last few chapter far more than I did the first 7.

    I actually loved the ending of this game, even though I hated the story that came before it. Ironically, this was the complete opposite of my feelings towards X1, where I loved the story up the end, but hated the end itself. Still, there were plenty of "Tropey" things ("Too Anime" still seems like a more accurate description IMO) that broke m immersion at times, but overall I loved the end.
    • R.A.P. R.A.P. x 2
  10. EvilTw1n

    EvilTw1n Even my henchmen think I'm crazy. Staff Member Moderator

    The thread title is marked spoilers, so I ain't using spoiler tags.
    This is definitely true. On the largest scale, XCB1 was about a god who became a capricious and vengeful deity. XBC2 is about the atonement for the same being. XBC1 started off as a revenge mission; XBC2 is about helping a friend that saved you.
    You will find internet warriors who will virtually cut you from afar for suggesting that the Melia love triange was a bad idea. XBC got it right, imo; that's his lifelong love, and Melia's affection is a bit one-sided there. But XBC2...I dunno. I'm gonna leave aside the whole "huh, that'll be a...challenging relationship going forward" thing with Pyra and Mythra with Rex. But...they are literally ancient. Rex is like 15. For me, that's like the cringe-iest threesome wish fulfillment they could have gone after. And that they live takes away from the sacrifice, somewhat. And Nia, who was pretty much pushed into being a Flesh Eater, deserved some happiness, too. She and Rex already bickered like an old married couple. But eh, the shippers can have at it.

    What I'm more interested in are the Aegises, created from the three cores of the trinity computer processor. Wall of text incoming.

    Ontos - ?
    Logos - Malos
    Pneuma - Pyra/Mythra

    First, we gotta go back to XBC. Klaus destroyed the world/universe in a science project. In doing so, the principal actors in the tragedy were reborn as the primary forces in a brand-new universe. Klaus (who pulls the trigger) and Galea (who tried to stop him) become Zanza and Meyneth, while the computer program that ran the whole thing becomes the rule set, Alvis (that's all Monado is - the rules of nature and time, which is why only the gods were fit to reliably wield Monado...until Zanza Voldermorted himself and gave Shulk the ability to wield Monado himself as an equal).

    In XBC2, half-Klaus becomes the Architect of the destroyed old universe, and has a pretty elegant plan to restore the life he destroyed. The cloud sea disassembles destroyed matter from Klaus unleashing the Conduit, and heals the world (guess the salvagers were pulling things up from the destroyed Earth). The memories of the departed lifeforms are crystallized, shot into the cloud sea, and the interplay between crystals and sea made the DNA coding for new life, which evolved into the titans. The titans act as incubators for new lifeforms (life which is based on the memories of creatures past - from the core crystals). This takes millennia. Only then, well along into the process, are the Blades created (to act as managers of life, learning from human lifeforms, evolving further into more complex titans, birthing more complex civilization in a new circle of life). The Architect watches it all. He could have tried to stop Amalthus from stealing from the tree of knowledge, but if it wasn't him, it would have been someone else, because new humans are the same as old humans.

    So anyways, by the finale, they nearly yell from the rafters that Ontos is Alvis. And it makes sense - he announces himself as a computer in XBC, he's a shining green light, and he acts not as a god, but as a rule set for the universe he inhabits. I'm 99% sure they're going to go with "Alvis is Ontos" for Xenoblade 3. It's an unnecessary retcon, but it fits.

    Except that the timeline doesn't work. The science-project doomsday instantly creates a new universe - that's where half of Klaus/Zanza go. You can't have a new universe for a being to exist in that doesn't have rules that allow them to exist at all. Galea and the computer program/Alvis needed to also get sucked in at the same time. Without Alvis, the divine spirits would have no rule set of natural laws that would allow them to incarnate as Bionis and Mechonis. They couldn't have waited around for millennia for the Architect to get off his arse and make Ontos. Alvis was needed on day one in the new universe.


    I think too much.
    • R.A.P. R.A.P. x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Koenig

    Koenig The Architect

    To be fair, X2 already retcons some of the aspects shown in X1.

    In the original the "World Tree" was actually an orbiting space station, but in X2 it is a stationary space elevator/station. Likewise the dialogue and settings are similarly different from each other. They could be retconning it, or pulling a George Lucas.

    I definitely get the feeling that it is implied that Alvis was Ontos, but it is equally possible that they are saving him for X3 altogether. I am even curious to see if XCX is tied to X1 and X2 (Maybe not, given the naming structure?). Klaus did state that most people and objects on earth were flung across into countless other universes or something along those lines; it is quite possible that XCX and its original human progenitors and the planet Myra are a result of that.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Karkashan

    Karkashan Well-Known Member

    I think @EvilTw1n that there is still a bit of wiggle room with the timing of everything. The three Aegis cores seem to have already been a thing before the universe got reset to begin with (perhaps the Titan system was a terraforming project or the first form of the Lifehold technology humanity developed in XCX in preparation to abandon the planet?). So while Klaus may have taken his sweet time, Alvis may have (having less to work with as perhaps less parts of earth traveled with him) acting on the impulses of the (maybe?) slumbering Galea and Half-Klaus used that same to tech to create the Bionis and the Mechonis, then implanted suggestions in their mind to make them think they were gods who had done this consciously. Then once the two Titans were finished being created (or he ran out of materials) he returned the sea back to normal.
    If XCX is tied to 1 and 2, perhaps while the Ganglion were encouraging the Samaar to draw battlelines near the planet Earth so they could wipe out humanity, maybe the Ghosts fought them there in an attempt to obtain the Conduit. (probably not, but it's a fun thought exercise that could potentially make for good fanfiction)
    In regards to the Space station retcon, I'm thinking they did that because of the ring that encircles the planet. They may have realized that having it just float there makes slightly less sense than having it be part of a space elevator system (or perhaps it was supposed to be a space elevator thing from the start, but somebody dropped the ball at some point).
    • Like Like x 1
  13. FriedShoes

    FriedShoes MLG Staff Member Moderator

    Wow I was very nervous this was going to go the whole typical bittersweet anime route where yay the world is saved but oh the tragic sacrifices. I too would have thought the singular body would make more sense but I think Rex earns the opportunity to have the nastiest threesome ever. Kinda laughing that I've been retweeting lewd spoilers this entire time.

    Also its clear I need to replay or maybe just watch a longplay of XC1, cause I only made the space station and Klaus connection, which I thought was insane, and not much else. But I only JUST beat the game so I gotta digest and bug doujin artists to get to work on some mangas.
    • LOL LOL x 2
  14. FriedShoes

    FriedShoes MLG Staff Member Moderator

    Also just quick I cant imagine watching any of the cutscenes in the last 2 or 3 chapters with the english VAs.

    EDIT- and I instantly take this back. Should have figured they'd bring Adam Howden back for 1 (subtly 2) voice roles. And its cool. Its fucking cool. I knew I missed something when Klaus heard a voice shout in his head right before he died, and yeah, it was Shulk shouting at Zanza in the other dimension

    so good. But am I glad I fucked around with the sound mixing way back when, the music is very awesome but I would not have wanted it drowning out everything.
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  15. FriedShoes

    FriedShoes MLG Staff Member Moderator

    Overall thoughts, I really enjoyed this game, and will likely continue to enjoy it for the rest of the year.

    I think gameplay is the most fun in the series yet. Its maybe a little too much of a hassle to pop driver combos, but everything else flowed nicely. I enjoy popping blade combos, bursting orbs, chain attacking, full bursting, overkilling and idk quicktime events. Its fun to manage and watch play out. One of the more surreal moments was during the final phase of the final Malos fight where I had already sealed reinforcements on him so when he did the dumb war cry he just sat out of range for five minutes and I didnt know what was happening. Full bursting is cool but I've yet to have it focus on Rex, it always fills up on Nia's turn.

    Exploring is not as grand as the other games, but there's a lot of it, and more variety than I originally thought.
    Music definitely helps a lot, and fuck theres some good shit in the game that you could miss.
    fucking Tantal might be my favorite, which sucks cause I hate snow-anything, but hell if I didnt explore the shit out of that wasteland due to this tune.

    I found a lot of the sidequests to be fairly typical in structure, but the stories in them were very strong, particularly the Blade Quests. I was hoping they would flesh out the unique blades in some way and they did, very happy with the results in most cases. I think Nim's made me hate her more, though.

    Tiger Tiger is underrated

    Main story is very good but, in the beginning, very typical shounen. Structurally and in some cases thematically it reminded me a lot of Tengan Toppa Gurren Lagann, right down to the hot springs scene outta nowhere. That comparison a good thing, at least to me, its on the higher end of shounen plots. I enjoyed it more than XCX's story at least. The characters and constant momentum kept me engaged and then it just ramped up a bit more at the midpoint and then last two or three chapters just took it to another level, especially once the major twist that this game IS directly connected to XC1 hit. A very nice duality, reminds me of the two Bayonetta games in how they sorta neatly fit. That alone is enough to chew on for another decade. The denouement was intense and eventually sweet, and I left heart-heavy and satisfied. Kiinnnda disappointed that there is no post-game exploring but whatcha gonna do, they never do that in these types of games. Maybe hopefully in the story content DLC that releases in the Fall please?

    Shitload left to do but I'm gonna slow my pace now and really use it for pure leisure now.
    • R.A.P. R.A.P. x 1
  16. EvilTw1n

    EvilTw1n Even my henchmen think I'm crazy. Staff Member Moderator

    Shameless plug.

    Because we have #EditorialStandards, the score for this shifted. I originally made it a 9.5 in the haze of post-completion afterglow. Then I knocked it down to a 9.0 because of the mechanical faults. Then it went down to 8.5, then back to 9.0, then back down to 8.5 after discussing it with Joog. The sidequest system is just too much of a step back for me, and the enemies are a little too spongy. I kinda wish I stuck with the 9.0, but we live in the post-BotW world. The bar was raised.
    The Aegis were computer cores before they were Aegis crystals, true, but how would Ontos/Alvis interact with the new universe before he's made into a crystal and then escapes XBC2's reality in a time-space event? If the computer itself could interact with the new universe, wouldn't half-Klaus do more to atone for his sins as Zanza? The universes are connected, but it doesn't seem like they really interact outside of absolutely extraordinary circumstances (which, to me, would seem to rule out a computer in one universe running the rules for another universe).

    This retcon would all work out if it weren't for Alvis saying he was there at the very beginning. If he's Ontos, he needed to be there when the new universe was created. Maybe that can be gotten around if the world of XBC1 wasn't as old as Zanza/Klaus made us believe it was. Maybe the new universe was simply a void with ingredients until Alvis shows up to provide the rules for its organization.

    ...or...Alvis isn't Ontos, and this is all misdirection.
    ...is it really a threesome if two of them are the same person? It complicates the best-girl wars when they're...not...different people? I freakin' hate that the game made me choose, and I'll probably need to do a replay to see if anything is different if you choose Mythra instead of Pyra as the go-to name when you're in Morytha.

    Best girl is Morag, for the record. I could not fucking beat her in the memory section. I jumped over the railing and cheesed her with Azami's gun instead. Much respect, train conductor.

    Story-wise, the last third is actually pretty darn good. It's the getting there that muddies things up. The original gave you other plots to care about, with the High Entia and Egil. XBC2 threatened to give us something to care about with the mercs in Uraya, and the royal family stuff in Mor Ardain and Tantal, but it never really...focused.

    The big missed opportunities are Amalthus and Jin. Amalthus should have dominated the middle of the game's plot, but instead they just sorta let everything float on auto-pilot. Then they rush the reveal of who he is and what he does...and it doesn't even work that well as a plot device. The split with him and Malos is just weird. They're only working at cross-purposes because Amalthus wants a world leftover to rule (believing himself to be doing the Architect's will of eliminating unworthy creatures), while Malos is bent on razing all of Alrest.

    But Jin...just...wtf? He's broken-hearted, so he falls in with Malos because that gave him a goal to shoot for? They imply heavily that Jin is doing all of this because the Architect's new circle of life is unfair to blades, and he's kept himself alive for so long that all he wants to do is rest...but then that's upended by Rex yelling about him not wanting to die in the final battle.

    And Addam turned out to be a big nothingburger, too.
    Yeah, they've already retconned the biggest part - that Klaus was a somewhat maniacal, overly-ambitious scientist who callously tosses aside people trying to talk sense into him (this characterization is why Zanza made sense at all - of course they were the same person). Now he's a kindly, misunderstood dude trying to do the right thing. You can chalk up the space station differences to artistic license, but...flipping the characterization of the original antagonist is a bigger deal, imo.

    The whole Conduit thing is another matter. The first game yells at you "he destroyed the universe with a giant particle accelerator that caused a new big bang." That's completely excised with this whole Conduit thing. I haven't played the other Xeno-games, but apparently the Conduit could be the Zohar (which is also the shape of the core crystal of Pyra/Mythra). If that's true, Xenoblade went from being its own thing to being tied into a larger mythos. Not sure how I feel about that, since the original's story worked so well without any outside factors.
    • Like Like x 1
    • R.A.P. R.A.P. x 1
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  17. FriedShoes

    FriedShoes MLG Staff Member Moderator

    I dont think anything changes whichever name you choose, maybe one line of dialogue and the name that appears when you activate Pneuma form, but thats it. Pretty sure he shouts Homura and Hikari numerous times at the end so plop.
  18. EvilTw1n

    EvilTw1n Even my henchmen think I'm crazy. Staff Member Moderator

    Apparently it changes the very tale end of the game, ever so slightly. Whoever you choose gets the last line of the game. I chose Pyra, so that's what I saw. Mythra is a little harder to lip-read, though.

    To me, it looks like she says "I'm back, Rex." In the other ending, it kinda looked like Pyra said "I love you, Rex." But...the lip syncing is all over the place in this game. If that's Japanese, hell if I know.


    I didn't really think about it before, but the look on Rex's face....maybe they don't have their memories at all.

    EDIT - Shit, the youtube comments for this one are good, which has Pyra's ending.

    If that's Japanese, it completely changes the meaning of the end of the game.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  19. FriedShoes

    FriedShoes MLG Staff Member Moderator

    lip syncing is very loose in the game, but its at least close in the Japanese dub, so yeah, I would assume its directed to be read in japanese.
    and there's the bittersweet.

    idk, I dont think they'd be holding hands looking proudly to the World Tree in the main menu if it was that though.

    EDIT: oh wait, the cutscenes are different in the JP and International versions of the game

    at 32:00
    where the lipsync is possibly more clearly read as "tadaima" (I'm home)
    so still sticky sweet.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  20. Karkashan

    Karkashan Well-Known Member

    Also, Pnuema's animations change depending on who you pick in cutscenes as well.
  21. Koenig

    Koenig The Architect

    I am glad you all are still enjoying the game. I dropped it almost as soon as I beat the main story. How does the post game content compare? I might give the game another shot down the line and maybe even finish Ursula's skill tree.
  22. FriedShoes

    FriedShoes MLG Staff Member Moderator

    Is there actually any post-game content? Loading the save just shoots you back to before the final boss.

    I've been clearing affinity charts and merc missions and trying my hand at some of the superboss monsters.

    What is the deal with Ursulas chart? I need to get to Level 4 on soul vocals etc, but I only have the 2 merc missions and have been stuck on level 3 for a while. Ive repeated the missions multiple times but nothing.
  23. Koenig

    Koenig The Architect

    You have to keep repeating them...again...and again...and again... If you check your key items you can see her soul/voice/looks stamps; for her to reach the right amount of fans and lvl for her 5th affinity tree ring, you will probably have around 80 tickets in each.
  24. EvilTw1n

    EvilTw1n Even my henchmen think I'm crazy. Staff Member Moderator

    On the lip-synch dub, that's interesting. It's either storybook ending, or the bittersweet ending that Rex's expression implies. Damn you for doing this, Monolith.
    Yeah, so far as I can tell, the post-game content amounts to a harem title screen. You really couldn't do anything post-credits, anyways; all the titans have moved and are apparently merging into a continent. New game plus is all Monolith could really add.
  25. theMightyME

    theMightyME Owner of The Total Screen

    Finally joined the club, wanted to finish it before I started Octopath
    • Like Like x 3
  26. Koenig

    Koenig The Architect

  27. theMightyME

    theMightyME Owner of The Total Screen

    I still have a lot of negative thoughts about the game in general, and how it undid a lot of the quality of life improvements if the first, and ignored some of the better ideas from x (follow ball for example)

    I also thought the ending was a bit predictable with the green hair version of myths sacrificing herself

    But I did think the ending itself was rather beautiful, with the discovery of new land, the direction behind the cut scenes is very good, like the first game (and unlike x) .. But in general the story is more tropey more Shonen jump, than the first game.

    My biggest issues with the game at the end of the day, though, are

    1. The annoying repetitive busy work like having to constantly change blades to get past environmental puzzles (even if you have already solved, but need to traverse there again) the crappy map, etc... The qol downgrades.... Which also includes too much backtracking in quests

    2. The actual world layout... Too many cliffs to nowhere, and overall, just not as interesting or varied as the first game.

    3. The inability to change costumes .. Not a fan of some of the costume designs, and we are just stuck with them, Rex's new costume is key much just a bleached version of his old one too

    4. The constant graphical compromises... Like the load in whenever you start, it just takes me out of it the games visuals in general are just rather unpolished.... Though they definitely improved like face detail and animation for cut scenes... But this is the area where you can see the budget constraints
    • Like Like x 2
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
Nintendo {SPOILERS} Xenoblade Chronicles X Thread for Winners! {Spoilers} Feb 3, 2016
Nintendo Karkashan's Xenoblade Ramble-a-thon Dec 29, 2017
Nintendo Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Jul 13, 2017
Nintendo The 5th* Anniversary Xenoblade (re)Play Through [*Murrica] Feb 9, 2017
Nintendo Ask Me Stuff About Xenoblade Chronicles X Nov 19, 2015

Share This Page