REFLECTIONS OF THE PAST....

Discussion in 'Community Hang-Out' started by TheAmazingLSB, May 13, 2016.

  1. TheAmazingLSB

    TheAmazingLSB PLEASE UNDERSTAND....

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    Do you guys remember EGM...? Well I do....

    In fact I would go as far as to say the EGM shaped my young gaming life more so than any other video game publication that has come before or since....

    I bring this up because I 'm here to discusss an old OPed published in EGM March 1998....

    It was about SEGA, the decline of the Saturn, and what gamers thought SEGA needed to do to make their next console (which would be the Dreamcast) a success....

    Now, we all know how that turned out, right...? But that is not why I'm sharing this with you today....

    I'm going to share it with you in hopes of drawing parallels between SEGA'a situation then and Nintendo's situation right now....

    First off.... This Oped was written by none other than Ed Semard himself....

    Now, a lot of people found his veiws to be somewhat controversial....

    I was just readin a thread last month on Neo-Gaf that talked about an article review Ed wrote about the launch of the NES, and how Nintendo was doomed, and how the NES controller was the worst thing he had ever seen....

    http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1210488

    So I don't put this up as a "Ok Ed was always right." Kinda of opinion piece, that's not what this is....

    I'm simply using this Oped as an example of the climate of the industry in those days regarding SEGA, and how that relates to present day Nintendo....

    Here is the OPed....

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    I'll break this down piece by piece.... Here we go....

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    Fast forward to 2016, and Nintendo is now the one with the console getting ready to head strait to the bargin bin this Holiday season....

    WIth Zelda U being pushed back into 2017 for the NX launch, Wii U owners are left out in the cold this Christmas in terms of at least one, high profile title from Nintendo for Christmas 2016....

    Wii U is basically dead and burried....

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    How can the Wii U manage to have a decent Christmas 2016 you ask...? How about a fucking huge price drop, Nintendo...?

    Dropping the price of the Wii U dramatically could invigorate sales imo.... Maybe not a lot in the long run, but hey, it's better than doing nothing....

    And if you want anyone to even remotly think about buying a Wii u this year, a price drop needs to happen.... Profits be damned.... Do what you have to do, Nintendo....

    Or don't.... I already have my Wii U, so I honestly don't give a shit.... But imo, you guys should....

    Next....

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    Now, I would like to think Nintendo has this one in the bag, but, history is telling us a different story altogether.... Nintendo seems to be out of touch with the rest of the industry outside of Japan....

    I might be alone on this one, but I think Nintendo could do a much better job of understanding current trends in the industry, current standards....

    It certainly wouldn't hurt to try and get a successful dev or pub's opinion about things.... But with Nintendo always being so secretive about everything, it's almost like they want to be cut off from the rest of the gaming world outside of Japan, so that they are in fact not overly influenced by it....

    Something I really don't get honestly.... We all follow old Nintendo like it's the Gospel.... We all respect what they have done in the past....

    But what about the future...?

    Next....

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    Nintendo of America needs a blank check imo to help guide US geared titles towards western Nintendo fans....

    Nintendo have been penny pinching in recent years, forgoing E3, and instead relying on cheaply produced Ninetndo Directs to get the word out to the US audience....

    But....

    Remember when NOA actually had some clout with NOJ...?

    Remember when the head of NOA was more than just public figure head...?

    Remember when NOA mattered to NOJ for more than just producing treehouse specials...?

    So do I, and I think NOJ really need to let the dog off the chain when it comes to NOA and allowing them to have real input and make real changes if needed to the US market vs the Japanese one which Nintendo still thrives in today....

    All this time, Reggie has been our Hero.... But the truth is, there has never been another NOA president that has effected less change within Nintendo than Reggie Fils Aime....

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    The myth, the legend, the guy that litetrally brought nothing to the table at NOA....

    He sucks at SMASH, and equally sucks at being a background figure head that literally accomplishes nothing of value for US fans ever....

    I miss the Howard Lincon days....

    Next....

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    This is seriously true for Ninetndo right now imo.... That have completly ignored the western audience in terms of trying to help supply their console with any great western developed titles....

    Literally, if you like western developed games, don't buy a Wii U, cause it has none....

    Same with Sports....

    There are HUGE FUCKING HOLES IN THE Wii U's LIBARARY THAT NEEDED FILLING....

    And the same will be true of NX.... Nintendo needs to court these huge companies like EA to get these games on their console....

    Why...?

    For the consumers you greedy assholes....

    Get over this we don't need anybody attitude....

    Cause you do....

    You needed it with the Wii U, and you will need it with NX if it is to compete with the likes of any current console on the market right now, let alone any released in 2017....

    Fans need to get over caring about Nintendo making money imo.... Who cares...?

    What we should be caring about is what Nintendo can offer us as consumers....

    Not what they can offer consumers given a limited buget....

    Nintendo is full of money, and they basically never spend it on giving back to fans by trying to fix all these things....

    Now, I'm not saying that throwing money at all these things will fix them automatically, but it woud be better than trying to do it on the cheap and expecting the fans to simply please understand imo....

    Next....
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    Last edited: May 13, 2016
  2. TheAmazingLSB

    TheAmazingLSB PLEASE UNDERSTAND....

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    Does this really have to be said...? We all know the problems Nintendo has faced with third parties over the years....

    The question remains though, what is Nintendo willing to do about it to fix the issue...?

    Will they ever care enough to do something to help attract third partied to the NX...?

    My guess is they will sell NX all by itself, or at least try....

    But having third parties there can not hurt, only help....

    So let's hope Nintendo are finally ready to do something about this and throw some money at the problem, cause imo, they cannot afford to have another third partyless console....

    If NX ends up like Wii U in terms of third party support, you can just forget it ever beating out PS4/XBONE, let alone these .5 console that are supposedly coming very soon....

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    This is one area I think Nintendo does very well.... Exclusives....

    But are Nintendo exclusives alone enough to sell people on the NX...?

    I guess we'll see, cause I have a feeling Nintendo will have many for the NX launch....

    But will it be enough...?

    Let's hope so....

    Next....

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    Price is going to play a huge factor imo.... Nintendo already said they plan to not sell the NX at a loss....

    We know Gunpei's philosophy of lateral thinking applied to withered technology is still a huge part of Nintendo's design philosophy....

    All that leads me to believe we will get a high priced, gimmick heavy, low powered console, right from the get go with the NX....

    If that's what you want, great....

    But I expect the PS4/XBONE to get a price drop before the NX hits....

    Putting it at a even greater disadvantage in terms of price when compared to the competition, right from the start....

    Price point is already something I'm pretty sure Nintendo will lose at this time, just like the they did with the Wii U....

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    This is very true of Nintendo.... They need great marketing campains for the NX.... They need expensive TV spots.... They need radio spots.... they need product cross promotions....

    They need every marketing trick in the book if they are going to convince the industry and gamers on teh NX after the fail that was the Wii U....

    And it's going to take a lot of convincing imo to rinse away the taint of the low sales of the Wii U....

    Remember when Nintendo knew how to market their products...?

    Been a while huh...?

    If they continue with youtube only campain of advertising on NX, you can bascially just expect the same results they had with the Wii U, terrible....

    We can only hope they will have all this figured out for themeselves.... Cause it don't seem like over the past 4 they have listened very much to anyone about their advertising, or lack there of....

    Last....

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    This launch is very important for Nintendo, much like it was for SEGA launching their follow up in 1999 in the Dreamcast....

    We all know how that worked out....

    Do I think Nintendo has the potential for this to be a two bomb console run with Wii U and then NX...?

    Very much so....

    This is a very uncertain time for fans of Nintendo.... For investors in Nintendo.... And not just money wise, but in temrs of personal investment, or loyality....

    We could all get burned bad by NX.... Thena again, if Ninetndo has learned even just one of these lessons throughthe failure of the Wii U, there is always hope for a better Nintendo....

    For a better tomorrow if you are a fan of Nintendo....

    The night is always darkest just before the dawn I hear....

    And it couldn't get much darker for Nintendo and the people that stand by them during this uncertain time....

    Let's all hope for the best, shall we...?

    Just don't be surprised that there are some fans out there that will fear for the worst....

    I'm somewhere in between atm....

    One thing is certain.... These kinds of changes would only benefit Nintendo and it's fans imo....

    What say you...?
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    Last edited: May 13, 2016
  3. SkywardCrowbar

    SkywardCrowbar Twintelle's loyal Husbando

    First off, tremendous post. This is some great digging through the past to make a really fascinating point.

    I would say that all of the points raised here are valid for Nintendo currently, but one rises far above all the others... Nintendo simply has to have more games. The constant knock on Nintendo for about the last 7 years is that they simply don't give players much to actually play. Hopefully the emphasis on "Play" in their new slogan points to them realizing that droughts kill business.
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  4. sjmartin79

    sjmartin79 White Phoenix of the Crown

    @TheAmazingLSB - Another well-researched and extremely well-written post! Bravo!
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  5. Odo

    Odo Well-Known Member

    Excellent post! Thank you!
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  6. Odo

    Odo Well-Known Member

    This is true.

    When I brought up this issue on the NX carts thread I've been told that the problem is me. However this is a fact when you look at it from the business perspective.

    Let's make a simple table:


    Genres................N64..GC..Wii..Wii U
    2D Platformers........y....y...y....y
    3D Platformers........y....y...y....y
    Adventure games.......y....y...y....y
    Toys-to-Lifw..........n/a..n/a.y....y
    Music.................n/a..y...y....y
    Fitness...............n/a..n...y....y
    Enough big RPGs.......n....y...y....n
    Enough big Action RPG.n....y...y....n
    Sports................y....y...y....n
    Racing................y....y...y....n
    Cinematic games.......n/a..n...n....n
    Enough big Shooters...y....y...y....n
    Enough big Fighting...y....y...y....n
    Survival horror.......y....y...y....n
    Most Nintendo IPs.....y....y...y....n
    Good 3rd party sup....n....y...y....n



    People could say that "ok but, 3rd party titles were rubbish on GC/Wii". Yes, maybe for us, but FIFA and others sold millions. People buy it. A console needs those sort of games even when they're rubbish.

    NX as a Nintendo-only box will not work. This is going to be Wii U 2 all over again.

    Nintendo IPs aren't enough to sell a console. Wii U is the evidence that we've got now.
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  7. TheAmazingLSB

    TheAmazingLSB PLEASE UNDERSTAND....

    Thanks for taking the time to read guys.... I know it's a long read so.... I appriciate the feedback....:mthumb:
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Odo

    Odo Well-Known Member

    Reading all this makes me even more worried.

    Nintendo situation now looks almost exactly like Sega's. There's only one difference: Nintendo has much more money and it's bigger than Sega was back in the days.

    However if you look at Sega and "Nintendo home console division", it's almost the same situation.
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  9. sjmartin79

    sjmartin79 White Phoenix of the Crown

    @TheAmazingLSB - apologies in advance if this derails your thread.

    I'm sorry, but this table was created to skew to your opinion, and it has several instances of non-facts.
    First, what constitutes getting a Yes vs a No? Because if a "Yes" can be achieved by any game, then Racing would be a Yes for Need for Speed Most Wanted or Mario Kart 8, Survival Horror would be a Yes for Fatal Frame. The Wii U had FIFA 13, so that would be a yes for sports.
    And using the terms "Enough big RPGs" or "Enough big fighting"... is this enough for you? enough for me? enough for everyone? And what's your definition of a Cinematic game? And what constitutes "Most"?

    If one of my financial underlings brought me this chart, I would send them back to the drawing board. I get what you are trying to say and I appreciate your point of view, but skewing the info to favor your argument and calling it facts makes your point lose its potency.
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  10. mattavelle1

    mattavelle1 ARMS is like breathing.......but more important Staff Member Moderator

    We're was this Odo the past 4 years? It is definatly you who switched quick. Get over it
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  11. Odo

    Odo Well-Known Member

    I put "no" when the console has only one or two titles.

    Wii U has MK8 and NFS:MW.

    But how many racing games GC/N64/Wii had? How many PS3/PS4 has?

    That's what I'm talking about.

    Wii U has two AAA Racing games. One open world NFS and one kart-racing game.

    The others had many kart-racing, open world racing, sim racing and arcade racing. That's what I mean by at least "enough".
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  12. Odo

    Odo Well-Known Member

    Why do I have to get over it?

    Am I not allowed to post content against Wii U any more?

    @sjmartin79 disagreed with my points and he's discussing it like an adult while you have been attacking me personally for no reason.
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  13. Odo

    Odo Well-Known Member

    Quick list of GC Racing games

    1. Mario Kart Wii
    2. 18 Wheeler: American Pro Trucker
    3. 4×4 Evo 2
    4. Auto Modellista
    5. Burnout
    6. Burnout 2: Point of Impact
    7. City Racer
    8. Crazy Taxi
    9. Dakar 2 Rally
    10. Driven
    11. Drome Racers
    12. Extreme-G 3
    13. F-Zero GX
    14. F1 2002
    15. Freekstyle
    16. Hot Wheels World Race
    17. The Italian Job
    18. Jeremy McGrath Supercross World
    19. Kirby Air Ride
    20. Lotus Challenge
    21. Mario Kart: Double Dash!!
    22. Monster 4×4: Masters of Metal
    23. MX Superfly
    24. NASCAR 2005: Chase for the Cup
    25. NASCAR Thunder 2003
    26. NASCAR: Dirt to Daytona
    27. Need for Speed: Carbon
    28. Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2
    29. Need for Speed: Most Wanted
    30. Need for Speed Underground
    31. Need for Speed Underground 2
    32. Pac Man World Rally
    33. Pro Rally
    34. R: Racing Evolution
    35. Rally Championship
    36. Road Trip: The Arcade Edition
    37. Smuggler’s Run: Warzones
    38. Speed Kings
    39. SSX 3
    40. SSX Tricky
    41. Street Racing Syndicate
    42. SX Superstar
    43. Tube Slider
    44. Wave Race: Blue Storm
    45. XGRA: Extreme-G Racing Association


    Quick list of Wii U Racing games

    1. MK8
    2. Fast Racing Neo
    3. NFS
    4. Sonic kart
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  14. sjmartin79

    sjmartin79 White Phoenix of the Crown

    Personally, I wasn't talking about how many of each other non-Nintendo systems had. And that wasn't the original point you were making. We were talking if they were on this system or not.
    Okay, if we're talking one or two for a no, then -
    Racing:
    Mario Kart 8
    NFS: MW
    Fast Racing Neo
    Sonic All Stars Racing
    Fast & Furious: Showdown

    Survival Horror:
    Fatal Frame
    Resident Evil Revelations
    Master Reboot
    ZombiU
    several Indie Horror games

    Sports
    FIFA 13
    NBA 2K13
    Mario Tennis Ultra Smash
    Mario & Sonic @ Olympic Games
    Rapala Pro Fishing
    Brunswick Bowling
    Madden NFL 13

    Admittedly, some of the above are just crap games, but they were on the system. My main point was that it isn't fair to say there were none.
    If we want to talk about whether there were a good number of quality games for each genre, then yes, there would be a failing there.

    I get it, you're mad at Nintendo, and from your perspective, it is for good reason. But from an equally valid point of view, there are those of us that are not upset with Nintendo, and we've loved the Wii U generation and have gotten thousands of hours out of it. Does that perspective make me a fanboy? Maybe. Do I care? Nope.
    Do I hope 3rd parties are there for NX? Yep
    Because if nothing else, I have always been a "glass half full" kinda guy. I always have hope.

    (Edit: Again, apologies to @TheAmazingLSB - I ended up derailing your thread, and for that I'm sorry.)
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  15. TheAmazingLSB

    TheAmazingLSB PLEASE UNDERSTAND....

    No worries guys.... Discussion is always what my main goal is with this stuff....

    There is no such thing as derailing one of my threads....:mthumb:
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  16. Odo

    Odo Well-Known Member

    That was my point, good amount of quality titles.

    About sports I've got to disagree. We can't say that wii u has Fifa support only with one example. All the 3rd party have dropped support in all sports titles. Fifa players don't play Fifa 13 any more.
  17. Majorbuddah

    Majorbuddah My real name is Dolemite

    I just miss demo disks.

    Also, I was bashing Iwata before it was cool. You'll see... You'll ALL see...
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  18. sjmartin79

    sjmartin79 White Phoenix of the Crown

    If from the beginning you had said "All the 3rd party have dropped support in all sports titles. Fifa players don't play Fifa 13 any more." there would have been no refuting that. But you made the generalization that there were no sports games, no racing games, no survival horror games, etc.
    My point was concerning using specifics and facts over false generalizations when trying to make a point.

    You have good arguments to make, but they can't be taken seriously through inaccurate generalizations.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Odo

    Odo Well-Known Member

    I remember when you and many others did that and I remember when I was Wii U warrior. I really thought that Nintendo could get over it and sell many more units.




    But cmon guys, seriously, I'm not going to post this sort of content any more. Sorry for my content. I can't post anything against wii u without being remembered that I'm mad and that you guys played 9999999h on wii u. It doesn't matter, I'm talking about business here.

    I see that I'm making some people upset and all discussions for me have become nasty.

    But I get it's a Nintendo forum, Right?

    I'll try to not post on Nintendo threads any more for good. Bye bye Nintendo boards.
  20. Shoulder

    Shoulder Your Resident Beardy Bear

    Don't be like that, Odo. Seriously. I totally get what you're saying, and quite frankly I agree with you. But at the same time I also agree with Steve, Matt, and others. I try to see it from both sides, and both sides are very valid. If people are hating on you because of your negativity towards Nintendo, then that's THEIR problem, not yours. You've made your case, others have made theirs, and both sides have their pros and cons. Ultimately in the end, none of this shit matters, and what does matter are the games themselves, regardless of what system it's on, or what developer made it. If you cannot find games you like on aparticular system, that's your choice, and same goes for everyone else.

    Sometimes though, discussions turn into outright yelling and screaming rather than an actual discussion, but some of that stems from the tone in people's posts, as well as emoticons or lack thereof. And let's be fair, we are all Nintendo fans, so of course we are going to be biased a bit towards them, but it is also nice to hear more 3rd party (hurr hurr) responses from people less involved with Nintendo. Now, let me be clear, I am NOT directing any of us towards yourself, or anyone in particular, but instead as a general observation. Take that as you will. :mthumb:



    Back to this topic though, the parallels between Nintendo and Sega at those two different time periods are uncanny and at the same time worrying. I of course want Nintendo to succeed, but I've also laid down my thoughts over the months about it. I am in many ways upset and angry with Nintendo because they forget that other markets exists, and don't tailor their services and games to that. I still want that Nintendo Seal of Quality in their games, but for heaven sakes, is it too much to ask to take off the earplugs, and for once listen to people outside of Nintendo?
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  21. sjmartin79

    sjmartin79 White Phoenix of the Crown

    @Odo - I apologize, my posts were not meant to say you should not post here, far from it. I am all about having a good debate on issues or opinions, and I guess I was trying to express my preference in discussions on the difference between facts and opinions stated as facts. I'm sorry it didn't come across the way I intended it in my head, and please know there was no anger behind the words. I feel you and everyone else here are fully entitled to whatever opinion you wish to express. It is never my intent to silence anyone. If my words came across in a way other than intended, I am truly sorry.
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  22. TheAmazingLSB

    TheAmazingLSB PLEASE UNDERSTAND....

    These kinds of discussions can get heated.... No reason to not post how you feel....

    For me, posting is all about how I feel....

    I wouldn't want any of you not to be honest, that's just how I feel about it....

    This situation reminds me of @Ex-Actarus and how he decided to leave for similar reasons....

    And I miss that guy a lot....

    I would miss you a lot too....
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  23. Odo

    Odo Well-Known Member

    No reason to be sorry, you're one of the few guys that have discussed my points and wrote fair points too. :) You've been more polite than me.
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  24. Odo

    Odo Well-Known Member

    I don't feel like making my case and others making theirs. I feel like making my case and being accused of hilarious things like "swaped fast","in it's on you". lol

    Imagine if I had opened this thread with the same content LSB did. I'm sure I'd be called "nintendoom lunatic" or something like that. :D


    Discussing Wii U is still something that I enjoy and much more now, because Wii U is now dead. Now we can discuss what was Wii U. In many other forums people are discussing about Wii U and there are no beautiful words for it. All the business numbers and results about Wii U are out there to be discussed because Wii U days are over, so we've got 4 years of data. We only need Zelda U data to finish it.

    So what I wanted to say is that I made my point posting on some threads and opened one thread sharing why I'm not supporting NX. I reckon it's enough for TNE Nintendo board. This is a small and nice community and I don't want to cause more misunderstandings. Everyone knows everyone here and my case has been shared.



    It's about how we feel and that's how I feel lately.

    I've been reading and commenting on other places about the same Wii U issues and how I feel and I daily come across people that feels the same and are more open to discuss the toughest generation for Nintendo.
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  25. mattavelle1

    mattavelle1 ARMS is like breathing.......but more important Staff Member Moderator

    LIRL if you said what LSB said it would have been fine. But your passive aggressive, posting things in your post like "well in other threads I've been accused of this or that". Your talkin about what I have said to or about you without addressing me personally. That's what you need to get over:mthumb:
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  26. Shoulder

    Shoulder Your Resident Beardy Bear

    I do think in the near future, we can use the Wii U as a bit of a case study and understanding exactly what went wrong. Sure, we've gone into this many times over, but it is never one thing that secures the legacy, good or bad, of a video game system.
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  27. theMightyME

    theMightyME Owner of The Total Screen

    I think that people are still missing a key truth here.... it isn't whether or not nintendo SHOULD have 3rd parties, it is whether or not they will

    also, remember that the wii u launched with a strong 3rd party lineup... batman, mass effect, assassin's creed, darksiders, etc...

    but in the end they were just ports, cheaply made ports, often times with FAR less value than the originals (which at that time were selling for $20) or re-releases (mass effect trilogy coming out at nearly the same time as the wii u port of 3 for the same price)

    people think Nintendo can wave a magic wand and fix 3rd party support but they just wont... the truth is that nintendo will NEVER again have 3rd party parity, those days are over.... and so long as it doesn't have that the competing systems will always be the place to go for 3rd parties... meaning that the 3rd party games they do get, wont sell. It isn't about if they suck or not, it is about if they sell or not... and they wont.... unless nintendo is the alpha console for 3rd party... and that wont happen... they wont even be the beta.. they will be in f'n 4th bellow ps4, xbone, and pc (that isn't counting mobile which is just a different market).

    Nintendo really has no control over this, and, atleast for this generation, they are going to have to depend on exclusives (this does not mean 1st party alone btw)

    when Is ay nintendo should disregard 3rd parties and merge their own markets it isn't because I think they should be without 3rd parties, but because I know they will be without 3rd parties...

    the 3ds actually ahs decent 3rd party support, from japanese companies... and a merged system would hold that as well.
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  28. SkywardCrowbar

    SkywardCrowbar Twintelle's loyal Husbando

    My gut tells me that you're right @theMightyME, but I don't think it's quite time for Nintendo to throw in the towel on 3rd party support yet. If the NX is a very powerful machine, then let's see if it sells well, and then see if 3rd parties want to make non crappy ports to Nintendo hardware.
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  29. theMightyME

    theMightyME Owner of The Total Screen

    if they make another failed bet on 3rd parties it will pretty much kill nintendo's business entirely, the whole company will be restructured, in not in a way we like... more like they will just become a mobile company

    I say skip 3rd party accommodations this round and focus on re-engaging people in the nintendo brand, and unifying their libraries so they can have a more steady flow of releases.... Nintendo's biggest problem right now is that their brand awareness is dwindling, making movies, theme park partnerships and other merchandising as well as their mobile efforts should be seen mostly as a means of re-growing brand awareness than as an opportunity to make money.... they also need to find a way to sell the NX to the masses, and their is NO BETTER way than to say it is the system that plays EVERYTHING nintendo... that and an affordable price are paramount... far more so than graphical prowess

    I think the nX should be a hybrid and it should just flat out be called Nintendo.... and NX would be the operating system.... which would have its own branding, so that in the future scaled devices could release...basically small improvements every 2 years or so while supporting the systems going back about 6 years

    so if the first nx device coems out in 2017, the enxt would come out in 2019... the 2019 model would be more powerful but EVERY game would be playable on the original NX device.... then in 2021 the 3rd NX device would come out, and be even more powerful... at that point some of the new games wouldn't support the first NX, but most would

    PC games have to infinitely scalable, android games have to be infinitely scalable, iOS games have to scale yearly... I think nintendo can manage scaling every 2 years.... simple indy games made in 2029 should still be able to play on the first NX... but the bigger games will gradually require newer systems.... the msot hardcore fans will buy a new system every 2 years, where as most nitnendo fans can get by getting one every 4, and the more general audience can get by at 6 or 8

    as the library grows and the performance increases basically 3 times per generation, the system can go in and out of being attractive to 3rd parties, but with a universal OS between them it is never a point where they have to make a big upfront investment after the first

    so what I am saying is that in order to get 3rd parties back, nintendo first has to eschew them... well not even really eschew them, just de-prioritize them. basically they have a leaky ship... and that means they shouldn't be loading passengers yet, because that will just cause a total business failure through reputation (as in 3rd parties get burned and less come back, those that come back get burned, and less come back, and so on and so on)

    it isn't necesarily that nintendo should ignore 3rd aprties forever, but that they should put ALL of their attention towards 1st party, second party, and 3rd party EXCLUSIVES... ignore EVERYTHING else, don't ban it, just ignore it... so what is right for nintendo, make that message clear to 3rd parties, and cut the liscensing costs WAY down with the caveat that devs and pubs are basically on their own... then when your own ship is righted and attractive to potential passengers start opening the gates to them.

    my point has always been that chasing 3rd parties is chasing death for nintendo at this point... they keep doing it, they keep failing... some argue that nintendo always does wierd thigns that disrupts 3rd aprty parity, like smaller discs, less power, odd control schemes... but I argue that in most cases, those weird things are the one reason non Nintendo loyalists even bother paying attention to them as a hardware maker... joey xboxfan doesn't need call of duty on a nintendo system, he needs something compelling and different enough to justify a second system.

    Nintendo does not have the financial standing to compete on the same level as sony and ms, taking huge losses, it is outside of nintendo's business model, and as such would cause utter panic among their shareholders, which would in turn spell doom for the company... they HAVE to compete in their own way

    so they need a hook.... I think that the best possible hook for them is to say "this is it.. the last console, EVERYTHING nintendo goes here, hardware will update every 2 years, but for msot of you that will last you like 8 years"

    if they launch a hybrid at similar power to the wii u now in 4 years the 3rd itteration should be more powerful than a ps4.... around then the ps5 will probably be on its way, but in 2 years from that it is highly possible that the next nx is comparable to the ps5.... and 2 years later the nx is MORE powerful

    the key is to get people to invest in the NX OS rather than in the hardware.... get them in the ecosystem
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