It's Time For Zelda To Improve Its Stories

Discussion in 'Front Page Articles (working title)' started by jonathan-harrington, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. LinzySid56

    LinzySid56 New Member

    jonathan-harrington submitted a new blog post

    It's Time For Zelda To Improve Its Stories

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  2. tstitan

    tstitan NNID: tstitan

    Excellent article, and I fully agree. Thanks to Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask, we KNOW Nintendo can write a strong story without relying on the ALTtP formula. At the very least, I'd like to see the interesting character arcs of TWW and TP return. I do NOT want to see the melodrama of SS return. I also will likely lose hope for the series' narrative if we're given another A Link Between Worlds. Nintendo didn't even try with that game.
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  3. tstitan

    tstitan NNID: tstitan

    Also, I'm not sure that 'out of order' dungeons really limits the capacity for a complex narrative. Tales of Symphonia simply altered the dialogue as the narrative progressed to accommodate players that completed dungeons in a different order. It would certainly limit the cinematic way in which the story is presented, but not in such a way that prevents Nintendo from crafting an immersive narrative experience (hopefully).
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Commander B

    Commander B New Member

    You think that The Legend of Zelda games don't have good stories and should be like JRPG's? First off that is stupid, stupid because one, Zelda games are all about the story and two Zelda games are not a JRPG, that is like trying to place MarioKart as an FPS title. I think the industry needs to take a sobering objective look at themselves and better themselves for the sake of the gamers. DLC needs to go away. 3rd parties need to stop blaming Nintendo for their bad sales and realize their effort reflects on them, put more effort into a game and get more out $$$. I miss the old days of gaming: Games were cheaper, better made, not as many errors, etc.
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Odo

    Odo Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I don't think Zelda needs a deeper story. For me Zelda is more action than story.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. 81jono81

    81jono81 Member

    Ok, so, Commander B, here's the thing, and it's something I should have talked specifically about in the article: Zelda games' stories already intrude heavily on the experience. Even during the periods where no advancements happen, there are cutscenes and dialogue often. I'm saying they should turn those periods into something more meaningful and make a constantly progressing narrative. I'm not saying they should turn it into a JRPG, but they could learn from JRPGs in how well the story advances.
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Karkashan

    Karkashan Well-Known Member

    Still better than any of the trash that R.R. Martin writes.

    praisegrima
  8. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    No.
  9. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    Oh hell nah, fuck that noise. Zelda isnt some narrative driven linear adventure game like Uncharted. If anything Skyward Sword is the closest to that because it follows an anime style plot about Link and Hulia. You spend all game chasing her down, watching as she enraptures him in the cycle of BS that the Hero of Time is forced to deal with until Demise's End in Zelda 2. All because Zelda's a cunning lass, hence the Triforce of Wisdom.

    No Zelda works better with minimalistic narrative to get in the way of your game. Minimalistic and thematic, like Majora's Mask.

    You want to be immersed in Zelda? Do it through exploration.When it comes to exploration and combat the game should be demanding your focus 100% of the time. That's what takes you to a different world. That's what gets the imagination pumping, and that is what enhances the feel of the game, and its gameplay. Focus.{Thats why The Wonderful 101 is a masterpiece. (besides the camera issues here and there) the game demands you learn, demands your attention, and the more you put into it, the higher the returns are.}
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    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
  10. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    They should go in the other direction. Full on Metroid.
  11. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    Exploration puzzle action. Majora's mask's handling of narrative is still the best. Centered around NPC's and how things change with them as the situation in the game grow's ever more dire.
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  12. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    No. Zelda needs to focus on story less .

    • Like Like x 1
  13. tstitan

    tstitan NNID: tstitan

    ...what? Your grammar and scatter-brained points make your comment impossible to decipher.
  14. Mr-Chris

    Mr-Chris -TNE's resident Star Fox lover-

    Zelda just has a lot of lore in which we all like so we want a more story focused game. I liked SS's story and think that's about as much as story-driven as the series should go. Of course if they do put more effort into a story and it's good, then more power to em. Just don't let it overtake the game.
    • Like Like x 6
  15. 81jono81

    81jono81 Member

    I absolutely agree. It definitely shouldn't overtake the game. SS is as far as it should go in terms of amount of dialogue and cutscenes; but they didn't do a good job of making the story progress for large portions of the game. It was still segmented heavily.
    • Like Like x 3
  16. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    Get used to it. Use that slab of meat you got on your shoulders. Or do you mean to tell me that you're an invalid?
    • LOL LOL x 2
  17. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    WW and SS are character driven narratives. OOT , MM and TP were more centered around a theme of the world. ( Childhood/Adulthood, dealing with loss, and misunderstood people and their conflicts of hate)

    Character driven doesnt really fit Zelda's structure. Its not the right kind of narrative for a seamless adventure. Zelda is a game that's primarily about exploration. They cant frame it like Xenoblade, crafting a narrative about Link and his fate, but rather a story about Link in a world and his role in affecting that world. A part of a whole. Its not an RPG like Dragon Age, The Last Story or Persona. Zelda has more in common with a game like Golden Sun, Etrian Odyssey or Shin Megami Tensei
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    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
  18. tstitan

    tstitan NNID: tstitan

    You're being selective in your analysis and contradicting yourself. WW and SS both have the themes you cited the others as having. In fact, of all the games you mentioned, MM is the MOST character driven of the Zelda games, as the entire story is told through the backstories of various NPCs. The focus of TP is the relationship between Midna and Link, and the character growth of Midna is the focal point of the ENTIRE narrative. OoT is about Link accepting the role as the Hero of Time and, together with Zelda and the sages, defeating Ganondorf. The Zelda series has been a narrative-driven series since ALTtP, and to state otherwise is ignorance. The goal in every Zelda game is to collect items, solve puzzles/complete dungeons, and advance the plot to the inevitable conclusion of defeating the main antagonist and saving the land and/or Princess Zelda. Not since the very first Zelda game (and MAYBE Zelda II) has the main focus of Zelda been exploration. If anything besides the narrative, the main focus of Zelda games is puzzle-solving and combat.

    And Zelda has very little in common with Etrian Odyssey or SMT. Not sure where those comparisons are coming from...
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    Nah man. SS is the most character driven story and you do little exploration in that game. Exploration in that game is basically limited to figuring out how the dungeons work and searching for items on islands you can quite access yet.


    You dont understand what Zelda is, watch that sequilitis video. Aonuma doesnt care about "narrative" in Zelda. They come up with an excuse for the story and they go with it from there.
    • Like Like x 2
  20. 81jono81

    81jono81 Member

    That sequelitis video is excellent. I've watched it multiple times. And while I don't think Egoraptor is ever fully wrong in it, I do disagree with him in multiple places.

    That said, I don't quite understand your point. The point of that part of the video was that recent Zelda games have focused too much on the narrative of Zelda since Oot and possibly even alttp, and in doing so lost the allure of discovery that made the original so great.

    Hence why I included the last part of my article. "One final thing to mention is how important the story is in and of itself. Perhaps you do not believe that the story is important enough to warrant all this; perhaps you want no story and just wish to be let loose to explore in a fantasy world without being held back by cutscenes and scrolling text. I honestly understand that. There is a sincere case to be made for getting rid of a dedicated story completely. We feel like a hero when we go beat up monsters and explore the world; we don’t need to be told we’re a hero or be told to go beat up monsters and explore the world.

    But when done well, a good story can improve a game beyond measure. When you have characters you care for, when you have a world you love being threatened by an evil you hate, and you yourself are the hero taking part in this experience: that is a massive boon to a game. As consumers of media, we love to make connections to characters, we love to be surprised by story turns, and in video games, we can become a part of these events and experience them first-hand. In most of gaming, the story shouldn’t take over the experience, but implemented in tandem with the gameplay properly, it can only be an improvement."

    Which is just my opinion of course, and I seriously understand the opposite belief. So again - the story in Zelda is, to my mind, hugely important. And the story - ever since Alttp - has been a huge part of the experience, with dialogue and cutscenes always being present, especially in Twilight and Skyward. So why not make it something that is constantly interesting, evolving, and surprising?
  21. tstitan

    tstitan NNID: tstitan

    Coming up with the story after the gameplay elements is irrelevant, because (as I've already stated) Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening prove that Nintendo and the Zelda team CAN craft an interesting narrative without creating an overly-linear game.

    SS is NOT the most character-driven narrative in the series, and you continuing to parrot that does not make it more true. SS is the most LINEAR in the series, which is not the same as character-driven. Again, every Zelda game post-Zelda II has been character driven.

    I'm not the one that doesn't understand what Zelda is; you are. You claim that you want more exploration in Zelda, then proceed to cite entries like OoT, MM, and TP as good examples of this, when in fact they are better examples of the Zelda series attempting to weave an interesting narrative into the gameplay (TP is arguably just as linear as SS). Yeah, everybody cries and whines about how Zelda used to be about 'exploration' and 'adventure,' which is true, but those don't define the series by themselves anymore. The relationship between Zelda, Ganondorf, Link and the Triforce has been the backbone of the narrative since the beginning, and thanks to ALttP, that core story has only gotten more and more interesting. Now that things like Hyrule Historia exist, the story of The Legend of Zelda is just as important as the other elements that make it Zelda.
    • Like Like x 3
  22. tstitan

    tstitan NNID: tstitan

    I'd have to be an invalid to make sense of your contradictory points and lack of punctuation.
  23. juegosmajicos

    juegosmajicos JUEG IS DEAD.... Staff Member Moderator

    Some people think that the whole "story vs gameplay" thing is a zero sum equation, that if you get more of one you will inherently make the other worse. I disagree. You can improve the quality of one without reducing the quality of the other.

    The reason for previous Zelda games having simple stories is not because they have so much gameplay; the reason for it is Nintendo not allocating the talent necessary to that end. Nintendo just didn't care that much about the quality of their stories to find the talent necessary to make that side of the game shine.

    Of course at this point it becomes a matter of budget, or of how much money Nintendo is willing to invest in the different aspects of a game, according to how much they expect to get back from it. Whoever is making budget decisions for Zelda games is, generally speaking, deciding that getting talented writers is not worth the extra weight on the budget. But this is not to say that, if the game's budget was increased to allow for the use of talented writers without compromising the quality of the game, more people couldn't end up buying the game and making up the budget difference, or more.

    Besides, with Nintendo's increasing use of external first-party studios like MonolithSoft and Retro Studios, they can more safely now increase the production values of their games without spending as much money as they would if they were acquiring fresh talent. As I understand, Skyward Sword already received the help of MonolithSoft for the storytelling aspects, which certainly explains why they were of higher quality than any previous Zelda game, as far as the main story and cinematics go (but I agree with Jonathan that the story isn't very well paced, though I believe this was a problem also tied to the gameplay, with all those silly fetch quests).
    • Like Like x 3
  24. juegosmajicos

    juegosmajicos JUEG IS DEAD.... Staff Member Moderator

    I'll agree with this. There is much that goes into making a Zelda game great, and the gameplay alone isn't it. If I only valued Zelda for its gameplay, I would be content with playing Dark Souls 2 for the exploration and adventure, and asking for a sequel to Pandora's Tower for the superior dungeons and bosses.

    One way that I always heard it put before, is that Zelda has a "charm" that makes it special. This charm can come from the art style, the dialogue, the situational humor, or even just the fact that Link's most heinous enemy is a swarm of chickens. This is only one example of how Zelda is about more than the gameplay, but it's worth noting.
    • Like Like x 3
  25. tstitan

    tstitan NNID: tstitan

    Exactly. There's no one thing that defines Zelda. Zelda is a unique entity in that so many elements come together to give it that Zelda feeling (or charm, as you say). No Zelda game has done everything right, but that's probably never going to happen. I hope that this next Zelda game introduces new precedents that become part of that charm; the oft-talked about open-world without boundaries, perhaps a new story formula, maybe a deeper post-game, multiplayer/other modes... it's exciting to think about.
    • Like Like x 4
  26. Odo

    Odo Well-Known Member



    I've got another opinion about what "character driven" must mean in Zelda: for me it means that the Legend is Zelda's but the protagonist is gamer's. What I mean is that Link is myself, so I do whatever I want with him, exploring and beating beasts, collecting rupees, drinking milk and playing those rupee games. When I play Zelda, sometimes I joke "Well, I'm going to play the town games, ride Epona and drink milk in order to get drunk, so go to hell princess". I love it in Zelda when you feel that you can turn the quest down.

    So I agree that triforce story and the relationship between the characters are important, but for me, the soul of Zelda is freedom and exploration. So, story is important, but freedom, exploration and puzzles are essential. It's just my opinion about what Zelda should be.




    Yeah, I agree, because I'm Link. The gamer is Link.

    Of course we can say the same about a lot of other games, yes sure, but for me it's essential in Zelda. You're Link, you know about the legend and you just live in that world. You're invited to follow the story, but the world that surrounds you is as important as the quest. You're invited to save the princess, but you do it when you want to do. That's why I agree that Zelda should be more about exploration.

    That's why I get mad when I hear people saying that Link must have a voice.

    When I play Zelda I feel that the story is just a link between the dungeons. That's the feeling I love.



    This is true, it's important. But it's not what I want. The more they add cutscenes and infinity dialogue to press A, the less I like Zelda. Seriously.
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  27. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    The qualities of a video game is not as simple as just allocating resources to your stat pool .

    It is very much a zero sum game, because we as a species have only so much time and so much focus to devote to one thing, especially as a group.

    Projects have elements that the team focuses on and the synergy of a team will always show in the end product.
    How the stories are ameliorated through the development process is one particular aspect of this
  28. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    This man gets it. Less anime story plotline in my Zelda please.

    Leave that to metroid.
    • Like Like x 2
  29. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    Oh joy, you're not reading are you?
    When did I ever cite the 3D games as good examples of exploration? I said that their narrative structure, fits the style of game Zelda is far better. Shit man I made it clear that I prefer the 2D games for that. They're more suited as free roaming adventure games. The puzzles are better to. The game has overall, a much more immediate design. Even then the OG TLOZ does things none of the other games manage to do design wise.

    I brought up SS.WW and TP because you wanted to talk about narrative.
    Speaking of narrative,do you know what character driven narrative is or not?

    Xenoblade is character driven, The Last Story is character driven, Persona is character driven. Shin Megami Tensai is not character driven, Golden sun isnt character driven, Dark souls isnt character driven, neither is etrian odyssey.

    Xenoblade may have a character driven narrative, but its a game that offers you a great sense of freedom. People like this about those games. You can go off and do whatever the hell you want exploring the game in full, in this sense its kind of a hybrid, between character driven JRPG's and free roaming exploration based rpgs (exploration is Xenoblade's backbone after all, the game continuously rewards you for it with every bloody mechanic that is integral to the game, from the affinity system, to landmarks/quick travel, to the quest and items system). The setting plays a huge part in that.

    Persona is another character driven game that offers you a lot of freedom, and everyone's experience with that game is different due to the social link mechanic and the other factors. This is also why people like Fire Emblem.

    Golden Sun? Shin Megami Tensai? These are exploration based games at their heart. Full of Dungeons. You find alot of the story and the world in the npc's . In these games you seek out the story that develops the world in a segmented but open map format that fleshes out much of the surrounding of the game.The focus of the narrative is the world in which these people inhabit and their story.

    Each of these games has an overarching narrative, but the meat of the game is found by the player, not something they're lead towards, cutscene to cutscene.


    Cutscene to cutscene story telling works far better in action games ( Like Devil May Cry) than they do in Role Playing Games. Where the operative word is "ROLE PLAY". Why would you want to take control from the player?
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    Last edited: Jul 30, 2014
  30. juegosmajicos

    juegosmajicos JUEG IS DEAD.... Staff Member Moderator

    Even if it were defined as a zero-sum game, the question becomes how many elements are in this equation. Like said before, assuming it's only a gameplay vs story equation is simplistic. Adding budget to that is still unconvincing. Even after adding time to that equation, as you have done, does not disqualify the end product from benefiting from various other elements, such as technology and improved work organization.

    Nintendo are not constrained for their new Zelda game with the same boundaries they were for their last. They could allocate a larger budget, more talented people, more development time (after all, the last Zelda was developed in less time after the inclusion of motion controls forced them to scrap what they had up to that point and start from scratch); furthermore, they can make use of their consolidated offices, new development technology, design techniques, and so on, in ways that weren't used or weren't possible before.

    It's entirely tenable that a new Zelda game can improve in both its story and gameplay, even if you think these are not inextricable from each other or from what Nintendo views as the "Zelda experience". The OP's position is that Zelda's story should improve, and I don't think it can be opposed based on a false dichotomy (of gameplay vs story) or on arbitrarily imposed limitations (time and budget; the limitations are for Nintendo to determine, and are undeniably more complex than just the few being discussed here).
    • Like Like x 1
  31. juegosmajicos

    juegosmajicos JUEG IS DEAD.... Staff Member Moderator

    On the question of which kind of narrative I'd prefer for Zelda to have, I can't say I'd take one over the other. Some of the most enjoyable parts of Skyward Sword to me was the stuff dealing with Link, Hylia, and Demise. There is very little history to that game's world, which I definitely found disappointing, but at the same time the relationships between the characters were very enjoyable and, in my opinion, the best the series has had since its beginning.

    But at the same time, I love learning the history of a game's world. The most obvious example for me would be Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2, where the weight of the narrative falls mostly on its world and history.

    I want the next Zelda to strive for both kinds of storytelling, much like Xenoblade does. I don't see why it couldn't do that.
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    Yes but " story" is just not one element either. As you can see here, we all have different types of "story" in mind particularly with regards to how its portrayed and how it draws the player along on their quest. Linear and Character driven like TLOZ SchoolGals In the Sky ( Its a story about Hylia, The Hero of Time and Demise, its clearly character driven lol. ) or a game like Majora's Mask. Or more fittingly, Link's Awakening.

    If we look at Nintendo's design process, they start with a prototype, and that prototype is worked on, it evolves into something , alot of new zelda games come from themx messing around with the old games, changing them up, remaking them, turning them into something new.

    Where does narrative fit in this box? Aonuma mentioned how The Wind Waker had the most , organic process when it came to this as the story just fit and was developed really early alongside TWW original premise. ( Almost like Splatoon's development process)

    Something to think over.

    Speaking of which, holy crap this guy knows his zelda lol

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=123107942&postcount=730

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=123121319&postcount=737

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=123095069&postcount=717

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=123253973&postcount=781

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=123195923&postcount=768

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=123327128&postcount=785

    Moar Zelda fact



    • Like Like x 2
  33. tstitan

    tstitan NNID: tstitan

    "When did I ever cite the 3D games as good examples of exploration? I said that their narrative structure, fits the style of game Zelda is far better. Shit man I made it clear that I prefer the 2D games for that. They're more suited as free roaming adventure games. The puzzles are better to. The game has overall, a much more immediate design. Even then the OG TLOZ does things none of the other games manage to do design wise."

    Again, you're making contradictory points that I'm having trouble deciphering. You think the 3D games narrative fit Zelda better, but you prefer the 2D games for that? The puzzles are better to...what? 'The game has overall, a much more immediate design.' WHAT GAME?

    "Speaking of narrative,do you know what character driven narrative is or not?"

    I do, but I'm not sure you do. You argue that Xenoblade and The Last Story are character-driven, yet those plots are very clearly plot-driven in that the characters are reacting to their circumstances and not all the characters you control are inherently integral to the final solution. You can argue that Shulk is integral as Zanza's chosen host and wielder of the Monado, but Alvis hints in the final battle that the 'True Monado' merely requires the strength of a being's desire to go on living, which is something that any of the other characters could arguably do (speculative, but the point still stands). In Zelda's narrative, Link's inherent ability to wield the Master Sword and the Triforce of Courage is required for most of the stories to reach their conclusions, making it by definition a character-driven narrative. Even the games that don't feature the Triforce are primarily character-driven thanks to things that only Link can accomplish. In LA, Link is the only one that is not an imagined entity dreamed up by the Wind Fish. In MM, Link is the only one that can rewind time.

    Frankly, it makes little difference. The point of my original post was that Nintendo is fully capable of crafting a quality, complex narrative that doesn't follow the standard ALttP formula without sacrificing quality game play, as evidenced by LA and MM. There's no reason Nintendo can't offer someone like me with a desire for a more complex narrative a better story, while simultaneously supplying gamers like you that have a desire to see a Zelda game with a more open-ended structure that emphasizes exploration.

    IN FACT, if I may quote myself; "It would certainly limit the cinematic way in which the story is presented, but not in such a way that prevents Nintendo from crafting an immersive narrative experience (hopefully)."

    This is me indicating that Nintendo can have a narrative that does not rely on the cinematic linearity of SS and TP, yet still include an immersive narrative in the same vein as MM and LA. Exploration is an important part of Zelda, and I would never say it isn't, but that doesn't make it MORE important than story, puzzle-solving, combat, character design, etc. It's an amalgamation that makes the Zelda games so special. If you're arguing (as best I can decipher) that Zelda is better without the bloated cinematics and melodrama of SS, then we're in agreement and are arguing about things completely irrelevant to my original point. If you're arguing that exploration is the MOST important element of Zelda, then we simply have a subjective difference of opinion.
  34. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    I know what you mean, personally my favorite Zelda's are TLOZ, Links Awakening, ALLTP and the Oracle games. Then its Majora's Mask,TP' dungeon structure/combat(best in the series imo) and SS's environmental puzzles ( again probably the best puzzle structure aonuma's come up with so far, these were so much more enjoyable than the gimmick style lock and key puzzles thats are littered in most of the Zelda's dungeons. Its like they're one giant working contraption out of an indiana jones movie,lol.)

    Honestly that's why Im very interested in this new Zelda, Aonuma's pooling from my favorite games in the series to create something new. I hope I adore it as much as I adore'd Xenoblade. From the very moment I got the gem crafter :p
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    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014
  35. tstitan

    tstitan NNID: tstitan

    I really, really hope Zelda U is a whole new animal. I am a massive Zelda fan, but the series is getting very, very tired for me. If we end up with another carbon-copy like ALBW, I will be quite upset. As much as I do not like SS because of the way the story is presented and how difficult it is to return for subsequent play-throughs, it at least had a fresh control scheme that I loved. Zelda U really needs to reinvigorate the series for me to stay faithful.

    Also, speaking of Xenoblade, Xenoblade X has a VERY HIGH bar to leap when it comes out next year. Xenoblade was easily my favorite/most played game on the Wii.
    • Like Like x 1
  36. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    Ha, I liked ALBW a lot, preserves a lot of the design aspects that makes 2D Zelda so brilliant.

    Zelda U sounds like it has a persistent online world connected to miiverse ala pokemon with daily events to it. lol

    Im mostly interested in the puzzle structure of this game and the depth of the combat
    • Like Like x 3
  37. tstitan

    tstitan NNID: tstitan

    Bah, it looks like you and I are pretty opposite. Either way, I think we'll both get what we want out of Zelda U, if Aonuma makes good on his promises. Once we have more footage of the game, we'll all have a clearer idea.

    "Zelda U sounds like it has a persistent online world connected to miiverse ala pokemon with daily events to it. lol"

    Now THAT sounds awesome...
  38. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    It seems we are in agreement.

    Sometimes I wonder about games. Seems every day they're heading towards being more and more niche. You see as we keep pushing for immersion, I feel that one day, people would just rather disappear in their VR headset for a couple hours to experience being somewhere else rather than playing a game. I dont play games for narrative, or story or escapism, I play them because I like to create, I like to influence, I like to test myself, playing a game drives my understanding of it and the people who put their heart and soul into crafting it. Thats why I like Nintendo, why I like Itagaki, why I like Platinum Games, why I like games from the 90's in general. Shit that's why I like FEZ. FEZ is brilliant, its a shame that Fish acts the way he does. I swear tho the person underneath all that shit is rather interesting,as childish as he is. But really do we really ever grow up? I don't think so, we just adapt to our responsibilities as they're placed on us, and those that cant, fail.

    But hey, I love anything that stimulates my imagination, so if you can enhance your game by weaving a smart narrative into it, Im all for it. Xenoblade certainly benefited from it. But yo, none of that Bioshock shit. Please. When it comes to myself, though, the games I like best are those that demand my attention, those that demand that I focus on it and nothing but it. Its a rather different experience than getting sucked into the world of a book yet similar in others.

    My views of game development are a little bit different from everyone else's

    Personally I believe that all games have a backbone to them., one element that is central to the game's design and then editions to it that ameliorate software in different manners and interesting light. These backbone's span many different genres of game, depending on narrative style or not. And they all work differently together.

    Exploration (Adventure games, RPG's , Point and Click's, Visual Novels, Yoshi's Wooly World)
    Skill Test ( Action Games, Mario platformers, RTS, strategy games,arcade racers)
    Sandbox Play/Simulation (Grand Theft Auto, Animal Crossing, Infamous, Spintires,Minecraft

    A good game takes one of those elements, decides how its going to accomplish one of these three things, and refines that till its raw.Then the game goes in the oven. You cook it, you add the seasoning, the elements that make your game unique, that gives it its own sense of identity, you create a backstory, you work all of its moving parts together to see if it creates that chemical reaction you're looking for. ( Chemistry is paramout to your cooking young bloods!) Sometimes you have to make changes on the fly, certain elements dont work right, things get scrapped, deadlines have to be met, all this personnel has to handle code, coordinate meetings and talk between so many people of different walks of life. Creating a game is one of the most difficult things to do. But its so very rewarding.
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  39. Odo

    Odo Well-Known Member


    Exactly. I feel the same way.

    For example, there are two opposite sides when we play Animal Crossing and Tomodachi Life. People are saying that they're almost the same kind of experience, but in fact it's not really. Animal Crossing delivers you a town and you do whatever you want there. Tomodachi Life is more like a comedy series whose protagonists interact with you. The former is a exploration and freedom game and the later is too driven by a character that it's not really you. Two different kinds of simulation.
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  40. Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

    Laer_HeiSeiRyuu Well-Known Member

    Yup. All games have a core, but how you build on that core and how you make that core shine in its own unique manners is what makes a game a game. Its why we have all different kinds of them.
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